Listen to the Pixies and then listen to Frank Black. There is a sharp contrast here. The Pixies were legendary. Frank Black is merely great. It is difficult to moan at him for making three good verging on very good albums and it is difficult to moan at him when his live show is an incendary blast of nineties punk rock.

However, when interviewing him these things have a tendancy to play on your mind but you know that he is not going to admit to them and you are definitely not going to bring the subject up. So, what do you ask the man who hates journalists, is happy with what he's doing and happens to be the man behind 'Doolittle' and 'Surfa Rosa'? This is what we thought up. I think we got a couple right.

Did you try and make a more concentrated album?
Well, 'Teenager' was short for a double album, but it was fine. It was probably long for people who don't have much of a concentration span but for the hardcore fans, I mean they can't get enough. It could have been a triple album and gone on for hours and hours. It just depends on who you talk to.

On your press release you mentioned you were asked to cut it down. Do you think you should release all the stuff you produce or...
Well, there's advantages to doing both. Sometimes it's nice to cut the thing down so you get a nice concrete thing to focus on but a long thing is nice too because it gives you a little more to listen to. Things that you don't hear the first time and that you come back to listen to. It has ... I don't know if it has more shelf life but you can hang out with it a little more in your car. They're both valid.

There seem to be more pop culture references in 'The Cult Of Ray'. Why do you think that has developed on this album?
Well, there is a song called 'Mosh, Don't Pass The Guy' which is, I guess, a contemporary reference to the kind of dancing you get at rock shows, but since it's an instrumental it's really just a joke.

Okay then, how differently are you writing to when you were in the Pixies?
Well, I'm probably a better song writer now to when I was in the Pixies. It's probably a little more thought out, not always, but it's not quite as a ... it's a little less goofy.

Do you still feel haunted at all by the reputation of the Pixies?
No, it doesn't hang around my neck. It hangs around other people's necks, I think. I don't know if that's too brief an answer for you but it doesn't bother me so, I mean, if you're in something that is successful it means you're in something that did well. It's not really a problem it just means that ... I make more money, right?

The split with 4AD was written up as being really acrimonious.
That's because the people that write the music magazines are full of shit, and spread rumours and make things up and say all kind of things. I don't really respect them in general, as people. There's a few nice people out there but most of them are kind of alcoholic wannabies, leeches, people who don't know how to write, people who don't know a lot about grammar, people who certainly don't know a lot about music and people who are more interested in writing about themselves than the music. You really can't believe everything you read in the music magazines. Anyway, my split with 4AD was about as friendly as a split can be between an artist and a record company.

So, why did you decide to move?
I felt like 4AD could have done a better job in promoting my last couple of records and as it was the end of my contract I thought it was time to move on and go where I was maybe wanted a little more.

You worked with Eric Drew Feldman from Captain Beefheart on the last couple of albums. How did that happen?
Well Eric used to play with the Pixies in the last days of the Pixies and he was a friend and a great musician and so it just sort of happened. It was just sort of a natural progression of people who know each other hanging out with each other making records.

Do you still keep up with what's going on in the music scene or is it more a case of distancing yourself from it?
I probably spend more time distancing than getting close to it but .. I don't know. I've just bought this record that I haven't listened to. This 'Rocket From The Crypt' album that I'm curious about as I liked their show that I saw.

Bearing in mind what you know now, if you started out in the music business now, how do you think you would sound?
How do you think I would sound? Well, the kind of way that the 'Cult Of Ray' is. Well, you're only... No, I shouldn't say you're only as good as your last record because that's not true. I don't know, I suppose it would sound just like this one does.

Well, do you think that your childhood references and early musical influences are crucial or would your music sound the same at any time?
Well, if you were to go back in time and crush one tiny butterfly with your boot the sky might be a different colour today.

.... erm, yeah, okay. How has the reaction been to the tour and the record?
Fine. They applaud after every song, shout we want Frank at the end every night. I think that they like it.

Is there a difference between the audience here and America?
Yeah, sure. Lots of different things, lots of similarities. Different towns, different nights are different. I don't know where to start. You get your Sunday night crowd, your Monday night crowd, your crowd that knows there's going to be a disco afterwards. I don't know. It's different every night.

Do you ever get fed up with pleasing all these people or ...
I enjoy what they're doing and it seems they enjoy what I'm doing or else they wouldn't show up. I'm not at all fed up with what I do. I like it.

Is there any sense of progressing towards some kind of goal or is it just what comes out?
Well, it's baby steps, baby steps. Day by day, song by song, album by album. I just do what I do. I have no particular goals.

What do you think of the Sex Pistols reforming?
Good for them. I'll go, I'll go, I'll buy a T-shirt.

ISo you don't think there is anything in the idea that they shouldn't reform because of the stance they took in their past?
Who's anyone to say, who's anyone to say. They're not the Sex Pistols, and it sounds like they're going to reform anyway, so good for them. I don't think the fans are going to care either. It's just the people that like to overtrivialise rock history who think that there is some important reason why they shouldn't. Maybe they'll be good, maybe they won't. Who knows?

Do you still think there is mileage in the bands with guitars thing that the Pixies helped kickstart?
I don't think we kickstarted anything. The guitar is basically part of the format of rock and roll music along with drums and everything else is just extra. Everything else is just things that have been added. you can have a guitarless band and that's fine but I'm just another guy with a guitar. There's millions of them.

Is there anything conscious that you try and do with your music? Any attempt to be more alternative or is it just what you do?
I just try and give value for money. I just try and make good records. Whether they're quirky or poppy, it's just how they come out. I don't just try and do one thing, I don't have any plan, it's just like catching butterflies with a net. There goes one, there goes one.

So you're not too bothered by any attitude or image?
Do I look like I care about my image?

So, if you could have any haircut from history which would you have? (He points to his shaven head.)

Frank Black was talking to Tim and Ben, in March 1996.

There are shitloads of Frank Black homepages out there, but some of the best are:
Patrick Asselman's page at http://www.stack.urc.tue.nl/~patrick/
Dean R. Gabriel's page at http://www.cruzio.com/~drg/frank_black/
Pieter's page at http://rugch5.chem.rug.nl/~pieter/frankblack/. Hope you like them.