Ben Folds plays a baby grand piano like it’s a guitar and his band give indie that Elton John touch it’s been dying for (?). Dave met Ben to ask the big question - why?

If you didn’t hear Ben Folds Five earlier this year, when “Underground” became a minor hit with its geeky cries of “hand me my nose ring... we can be happy underground”, you probably won’t be aware they use a piano. Piano, drums and bass guitar to be exact, with Ben hammering away on his baby grand, whilst Robert Sledge picks out big fuzzy basslines and Darren Jessee beats the shit out of a minimalist drum kit. So, obvious question, but why a piano?

“I don’t know, might be an obvious answer, but... that’s what I play. (laughs). I’ve played piano since I was little. And then in High School, I didn’t really play it any more after that, I was playing in rock bands, I’d play bass guitar or drums of something, and piano’s more or less something you accompany people for Broadway show auditions.

“I’ve always written songs, too... it was really delusional, but I felt like it was my time. Two and a half years ago, it was like someone tapped me on the shoulder and said “you must go”. And I went out into the world and found a band, and just started it. To me, it was like, if you could pack the punch of a heavy guitar band, and this the heaviest of guitar band times in the United States - it’s like over here, when you go into the shopping malls, it’s “dccs dccs dccs dccscsa ding ding ding da-ding ding da ding ding”, whereas back home, it’s like Burger King commercial, “A BURGER KING NOW, YEAH BOOGIE, STICK IT IN YOUR FUCKING MOUTH AND EAT IT, UH!.” Everything is like, big, heavy fucking deal. So I thought since music has got so aggressive, and I knew that I could play the piano that way, it’d be cool if we could even come close to the energy that’s coming out of bands like... even Rage Against The Machine, I like them.”

During this interview, Ben is wearing a Rage t-shirt. I point out they’re not so huge over here any more.

“I think that you’ve got your own music right now, and it doesn’t really make sense at the same table. Oasis, these bands have totally changed things over here. The “fuck it, drink beer, don’t talk to me, fuck you, fuck off” thing... RATM, though they were really aggressive, they were... hey, I’m not their spokesperson. But bands like that from America are all more careful about their message sometimes, and so I can imagine they don’t make sense at the same time.”

In retrospect, it would have been interesting to hear Ben defend “Fuck you I won’t do what you tell me” as a more careful message. However, the recent decline of interest in the likes of Senser, Chumbawamba and the Levellers suggests maybe music in England isn’t really about having a fuck-you message any more.

“There’s definitely the kitsch factor, and there always has been. The lack of theatre over here is a big basic element. The biggest bands in America have always been more understated. Like, we have Paul Simon, but over here you’ve got Elvis Costello, he’s got the glasses, got his knees tucked up and he’s reinventing himself every hour, whereas Paul Simon is like, “I got this little song to sing”, and he sits there in his little sports jacket and sings it, and that’s kinda the difference. We kinda fall somewhere between the two.”

There seems to be lot of passion in the songs for a piano, bass and a set of drums...

“I thought if you could get passion into the piano, that’d be good. ‘Cause piano bands have done that before, but it’s never really emanated from the piano that often, it’s more or less emanated from the guitar. Every songwriter, like Alanis Morisette, they’ve got some guy back on the drums, with hi-hats, tom toms all the way round, sticks up to here, and we’re not like that either.”

This passion comes across on record, too, even though their eponymous debut album features songs about working in a canning factory, being left alone with your girlfriend’s pissed old uncle, and shagging a girl who looks like Axl Rose. Ben seems to write piano epics about a combination of everyday cack and and everyday angst, but are they autobiographical?

“I can’t go out and sing a song I don’t believe in or relate to, and also I think that it’s fun to take mundane phrases, and mundane situations, and put them in a song... instead of singing about the decline of the Roman empire, or going up to Mars in a spaceship to play guitar... who gives a shit? I mean, I like that stuff sometimes too, but I also think it attracts you to the song in a cool way sometimes, just to hear something really normal.”

So does their music have a message?

“Oh yeah, but sometimes a band’s message is just a commentary on what they’re doing and what the music around them is doing. I’m trying to think of a band who are stretching the artform just for the sake of doing it, and there’s a little bit of that, sometimes your message can just be if you want to, you can do this. If you don’t want to you don’t have to.

“In a funny kinda way, that’s a really inspiring thing for a teenager. When bands like the Clash came along, and back home it was all Reo Speedwagon and shit like that, it was like, who’d have thought you could do that? ‘Rock the Casbah’, by the time that came on, to see and hear what they were doing... if you’re a teenager and you feel like quitting work, it could change something in your day. It’s about possibility.

“There’s a real fine line in pop music too, because you have to be yourself, but there are unspoken boundaries. Obviously, we wouldn’t sing a bunch of church songs, like, there are kinda rules.”

So are Ben Folds Five a pop band?

“Well, yeah, I think so, but.. we’re also an indie band. It’s funny, cos we’re a lot of things. I don’t think we fall into the current definition in the United States of a pop band. I think the harmonies and the vocals and the accessibility of the music make us a pop band. That’s okay, but it’s not just pop for pop’s sake.”

As with all true pop bands, Ben Folds Five seem to be either loved or hated - I’ve never met an indifferent Bis critic, and in the same way Ben Folds Five are either hailed as surging pop genius, or slated as being geeky tripe. They have a new album out soon, featuring songs such as ‘Song for the Dumped’ (“Give me my money back / I want my money back, you bitch / And don’t forget / My black t-shirt”), and an incredible live presence which communicates all the passion Ben slams into his piano. They’ll probably never be huge - too geeky, wouldn’t work in a stadium - and they’ll never be Take That pop stars, but then neither will you or I.

Ben Folds was talking to Dave, in January 1997.